Season 1 Episode 1
We take a look at your what good posture really means, and if your chair is really up to the job of keeping you in tip-top shape.
IS YOUR CHAIR RUINING YOUR POSTURE?
With so many of us sat working all day, itās no wonder that our chairs can have a big impact on our posture. How long do you spend each day sitting? A lot, I bet! I wanted to talk to an expert on chairs and ergonomics about how we can help ourselves, and look after ourselves. So I hooked up with an expert in her field, Alison Heller-Ono.
Alison Heller-Ono is President and CEO of Worksite International, an ergonomics consulting firm providing onsite and online ergonomics services and training. Alison is a Board Certified Professional Ergonomist and Physical Therapist, and a global speaker on ergonomics ā a renowned expert in her field!
Alison has courses about ergonomics, homeworking, and even trains people on chair selection and fit, so weāre in safe hands here. Be sure to check out Alisonās online courses if you need to learn any ergonomics, I can highly recommend her.
James Crow
Hi everybody, Iām James from Posture Stars, and today weāll be talking with Alison Heller-Ono, whoās president and CEO of Worksite International Incorporated, which is an ergonomics consulting firm providing on site and online ergonomics services and training. Alison is a Board Certified Professional ergonomist and a physical therapist. Her company recently launched its online ergonomics training academy for employee and professional development. And Alison is also a global speaker on ergonomics, and a renowned expert in her field. Good day to you, Alison.
Alison Heller-Ono
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, James, how are you?
James Crow
Iām very well, thank you. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to you and to all our listeners, depending on where you are in the world. That is right, youāre over in the east coast of America, and Iām in the north of England. And weāre bringing this podcast to everybody with the miracle that is the internet and a bit of wizardy pokery. Letās ask our first three questions. My first question I will ask is what is posture? Then I will ask you, what do you do to help peopleās posture? And finally, Iāll ask if you could give one simple piece of posture advice for our listeners right now. What would that be? So Alison, what is posture?
Alison Heller-Ono
Well, thatās such a great question, James. And it probably means a lot of different things to each person. You know, in my experience, posture is the bodyās efficient alignment of the musculoskeletal system. So your muscles and your bones and joints. Itās really a balance between the muscles and joints, in my opinion. So one thing I want to point out is that posture is really how humans support themselves. You know, the term Homo Erectus? Have you heard that?
James Crow
Iām familiar with the term Homo Erectus, yes.
Alison Heller-Ono
So literally, thatās the erect man, so to speak. Yes. And so that, that is referencing posture, everybody. So there are several different types of postures, in my opinion. So for example, good posture, or neutral posture, thereās bad posture, which might be awkward or non-neutral, or what we call static or sustained, where you stay in a position for too long. So you can describe posture in various ways. Thereās also what you would want to consider anatomical posture. And this is the inherent design of the axial skeleton from your head and your spine, as it changes through life. So anatomical posture, to me is not something you can really control. Like it may be affected by something at birth, or an injury, or an illness or disease process, like scoliosis or arthritis. So posture can change as a result of having those congenital problems, or medical problems. You know, posture, just, it doesnāt just pertain to the spine, though, either. So a lot of people think itās just, you know, how Iām sitting or how Iām standing. But it also pertains to the extremities or the appendicular skeleton. Probably thatās a complex word for people, but really, donāt worry so much about that. Itās really how, for example, we hold our shoulders and our arms and our wrists, our legs, our hips, they have posture, too. So thatās, in a nutshell, what I think posture is.
James Crow
So itās a brilliant answer, you know, youāve come at it from various perspectives, including, you know, a lot of people say, āOh, look at me, Iāve got great postureā, and theyāll adopt a static pose, which, of course, is useless to get them through the rest of the day, that pose might be great to pose for an Instagram selfie, but itās not going to help them get that box off the top of their kitchen cupboard without struggling is it? So youāve moved into dynamic posture as well. And I really like that concept of you having a central core and then going out to tjeposture of your shoulders, arms and the rest of you as well. Itās really good way of answering Alison,
Alison Heller-Ono
Well, most people donāt realise it, but we have working postures, while weāre performing tasks, or activities at work or at home. You know, posture, this is really, really interesting, I think. Posture is based on vision and reach. So when your eyes need to see a visual target, or see what your hands are doing, like typing on a keyboard or looking at a monitor. So if the monitor or your visual target is not centred to you, it will alter your posture because your head follows your eyes and your body follows your head. So itās like a chain reaction.
James Crow
Yeah, absolutely. Your head follows your eyes and your body follows your head. If you take a cat and hold it upside down, perish the thought, please do not try that at home. But were our listeners to hold a cat upside down and drop the poor thing, itās eyes would rotate, followed by its head and finally the body, to allow it to land in an appropriate posture.
Alison Heller-Ono
Yeah, you see? Thatās right. So heās validated my definition.
James Crow
Please donāt try that at home, anybody. Please do not hold any humans upside down and drop them to see if they right themselves because weāre not responsible and my insurance will not cover that. Iām guessing that yours doesnāt as well Alison,
Alison Heller-Ono
I stay away from cats. I have bad allergies to cats.
James Crow
Iām sorry for bringing them up. Yeah, I have a few friends who have cat allergies, as well. Best avoided then! So you and your team, you help people in the workplace with their posture. Thatās right, isnāt it?
Alison Heller-Ono
Thatās correct. Now, as a physical therapist, and an ergonomist, Iām acutely aware of peopleās postures, I look at it all the time, not just for work, but like at a restaurant or out shopping. I see people overreaching, bending incorrectly, just holding their hands on their devices too long, you know, looking down at their phone. So itās like, itās just something I canāt get away from, you know, so itās, itās kind of funny, but Iām, Iām good at it, and I enjoy it. So the first thing you know, that I think is to be aware of, of your own posture, you know, where your body is in space. And most people have very poor body awareness. And you, you probably heard the term of postural awareness. So with postural awareness, for example, is your head in line with your shoulders, or forward of your shoulders, like a turtle like a forward head. Thatās such a typical posture. You know, young people I see, you know, working looking at their phones, looking down at their phones, and texting with their thumbs. Their posture is usually really in a poor forward head and slouch, where the shoulders are rounded, the back is rounded. So you can you know, be aware of that position. But most people arenāt. Unless, you know, you point it out to them. Being aware of how youāre sitting, whether youāre slouching, or like sitting forward in your chair. So many people really are not mindful of sitting, of their sitting postures. So for example, you know, where are your legs, your hips, your buttocks, when youāre seated. Are your feet on the floor, or your arms close to your trunk and resting on the armrest, if you are at rest. So those are a couple of examples of how I help people. The next thing I do is to help correct awkward or non neutral postures, which goes back to the first thing I said, which is about you know, correcting the non neutral alignment. So correcting posture is rather complex. You know, it depends on whether itās a functional and dynamic posture or a stationary posture. So for listeners, you know, like sitting in a chair is a stationary posture, while lifting a box or moving a cart is a dynamic functional posture, where thereās movement, right? So people typically have poor postural habits, whether itās static or dynamic, but they often move in the same way all the time. Like if you typically have to bend and lift boxes, youāre going to do it the same way all the time, youāll probably bend at your back instead of your hips and your knees. Or if you have to stock shelves or reach for things high and low, youāre probably just going to do it the same way all the time until you have some kind of discomfort, right?
James Crow
Yeah, totally. So first of all, as a guy who works in posture myself, all I do is look at peopleās posture. Itās a curse, once youāve been in the posture business. The first thing you notice about someone is is their posture. And itās really hard not to judge, because for most people, theyāre not aware of their posture in their day to day activities, and to judge them meanly as we can do is just a little unfair. And when I work in private practice, I always tell my clients not to tell off the people they love with the stuff that Iāve taught them because itās just going to annoy those other people. With regards to when yourāe seated you can pay attention to your posture for a short time. But then when most people are looking into a screen, they get lost in the work that theyāre doing and they lose that postural awareness. So having the environment set up well is really key. And also improving that personās ability to pay attention to themselves, I find is really key as well. Would you say thatās fair?
Alison Heller-Ono
Yes, I would. For example, I totally agree with that. And one thing I also help is to find the best chair for people to use when seated at the computer. You could call me a chair whisperer, in a sense. Yep, a chair whisper.
James Crow
You heard it here first. Alison. Heller-Ono, the chair whisperer. Whispering at chairs near you soon. I know exactly what you mean. So youāve got youāve got some online programmes. You can help people to make sure that their chairs are set up, right, and that theyāve got appropriate seating is that right?
Alison Heller-Ono
Thatās true, you know, but before we go, let me answer that in a little bit. But I can tell immediately how a chair fits or doesnāt fit someone. If they have bothered, or to adjust it correctly or not. I can assess the person in their chair, assess their posture, while theyāre sitting. And they donāt even realise that Iām doing that. And I get so much information from that, of how that chair fits, whether theyāre using it appropriately or not. And then from there, I can assess the person by measuring them in sitting, and use the measures to select the best chair, which will match and fit them correctly. And I call that chair fitting,
James Crow
You must be very popular with chair manufacturers Iād imagine.
Alison Heller-Ono
Well, thereās so much to the science of chair fitting, chair assessment, selection and fit, basically. Yeah, I mean, itās a really important foundation. If you think about working at a computer and sitting, in my opinion, the chair is foundational to seated work, right? Yeah. And if the chair isnāt right, then the ergonomics will never be right of that workstation. So you have to get the chair fit and the posture of the individual to work together. And then you can work on improving the ergonomics of that workstation.
James Crow
I get it. So youāre looking holistically at the relationship between the individual and the chair rather than just the chair as a thing on its own and the person is a thing on their own?
Alison Heller-Ono
Exactly. You have to match them. And thatās the value of ergonomics is all about fitting the task to the human or the design of a tool to human use. And thatās what a chair is, a chair is a tool. Right? Itās a productivity tool, isnāt it?
James Crow
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Not quite as expensive as the individual sat on it. But absolutely, it is a productivity tool. You reminded me of some sort of dating guru and you match up individuals and chairs for them like the Millionaire Matchmaker or something?
Alison Heller-Ono
The chair Matchmaker,
James Crow
The chair matchm aker, there you go, you can you can have that one.
Alison Heller-Ono
Thatās great, James, thank you.
James Crow
My third question for you. And this is for our listeners right now who they may be in any sort of position or doing anything at the moment. If you could give them one simple piece of postural advice, what would that be?
Alison Heller-Ono
Well, I would tell your listeners to be mindful of their posture, to have posture awareness, particularly during stationary tasks, and activities as well as functional tasks. So itās easy to experience postural strain from overreaching or bending awkwardly, or sitting unsupported for an extended period of time. And you know, like most people donāt become mindful or aware of their posture until something starts to hurt, or somethingās not quite right, you know. So in addition, being aware of workstation ergonomics, or the tasks or performing the placement of equipment, thatās as important, as it predicates the posture that the person will be working in. So I like to say if the chair isnāt right, then the ergonomics of the workstation will never be right. And neither will your posture. So this leads to problems like musculoskeletal fatigue, or tension, tightness, and ultimately an injury. And it can manifest in many different places. So not just like the neck or the shoulders, upper back, mid lower back, or your wrist or forearm or elbow. So it can occur many different ways. So another expression many of us ergonomists like to say, or posture people like you and I, is that your next posture is your best posture, right. So in other words, the body is designed to move so get up and move. Recently, you know, thereās been a lot of talk about sitting as being bad for your health. Maybe youāve heard the term sitting is the new smoking. Itās not quite that but it can definitely contribute, though to many physiological changes if you sit too long. So itās not just about poor posture, itās about how long you stay in that posture and what youāre doing while youāre in that posture. And for this reason, I want your listeners to remember this: Basically, sit stand move and groove, right?
James Crow
Sit stand move and groove, we love it!
Alison Heller-Ono
Sit stand move and groove, you have to do all of it through the course of your day. By doing so youāll be more mindful of your posture and improve your overall health.
James Crow
Thatās such great advice. I love that. So weāre seeing a shift towards home working at the moment. And a lot of people, when theyāre at home donāt have the interruptions that they would normally have at work and theyāre likely to spend a lot of time just sitting there working. So you heard it here, folks, get up out of your chair, move and groove, get some water in and water out, if you need to, and get that body moving. You could use a little break timer maybe to give yourself advice on when it is time to move. Those are widely available on your computers. Or you could set something on your phone or a little egg timer or whatever it is that youāve got available. But please do keep moving.
Alison Heller-Ono
James, I wanted to just answer that one question that you brought up about some of the training that we offer about chairs. We have a chair assessment specialist masterclass for professionals like yourself, people that work with individuals around posture and posture awareness, and maybe workstation ergonomics, thereās so much behind the science of chair assessment, selection and fit. And weāve created whatās called the chair assessment system. And that system helps employers as well as vendors, and anyone that buys chairs or literally even uses a chair, (which would be most of us or almost all of us) to assess the quality and competency of a chair, whether it should remain in the workplace or continued to be used. So the chair assessment system is an inventory asset management tool for chairs only. And it helps you to inventory the quality and competency of a chair to determine whether it should be kept in the workplace, should be repaired, or replaced. So itās a great system. And that system is part of the Worksite International Chair Assessment Specialist Masterclass. And if you donāt want to become a CASP, then we have the classes separately just for chair assessment, and or just for chair fitting.
James Crow
Chairs are an inventory item. And I think people just assume that that once Iāve got a chair that certain itās going to keep them going forever.
Alison Heller-Ono
Chairs have a life cycle. And they remain in the workplace far too long. And our chair assessment system helps employers to determine, you know, when they should be replaced. And then once theyāre replaced, how to do a fitting. And so we have the training that supports all that. Itās really fantastic. Weāve gotten great feedback from practitioners, from vendors who sell chairs, who helped their customers determine what chairs should be replaced, and many other people like facilities and purchasing people. So I hope youāll check that out at Worksiteinternational.com.
James Crow
And for those of you who work for yourself and work from home, and nobodyās going to be buying you a new chair. have a quick look at your chair now. Just judge it. Is it a sorry old saggy horse that needs taking to the knackers yard? Or is it a Ferrari thatās gonna keep you going at great speed, for some period of time?
Alison Heller-Ono
Thatās exceptional. James, youāre right. Itās like do you have, is your chair like a clunker? Or a junk car? Or is it the super hot model? Thatās so funny that you you identified that because thatās how I like to look at chairs. I would like to tell your listeners that if you go to my website at Worksiteinternational.com, I do have a free trial. Thereās a demo video and a download to assess to up to 10 chairs on your own. So you could really assess your home office chair and determine whether to keep, repair, or replace it.
James Crow
It sounds like a really good idea. So there you go. You can keep repair or replace. Please keep our podcasts top of mind. Weāre really keen to keep you going and listen to our next ones. So it just remains for me to say thank you so much, Alison Heller-Ono, Iāve learned loads from you today. Itās been really fascinating. So thank you very much for joining us.
Alison Heller-Ono
Well, thank you James for inviting me. This has been a great opportunity and I look forward to chatting with you again soon, and your listeners: have a great day and watch your posture!
James Crow
Yep, watch your posture guys. Take care. Bye bye